Adjustable ride-height on the Red Bull?

[Prefect]

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/12618.html

Wouldn't a device like this be illegal? That is, if they really have one...

[lightmas]

autosports take on it refers to active suspension.

Ferrari also have a system, but apparently its manual and must be adjusted at the pits and between quali and the race.

[moonraker]

Ross Brawn is asking the FIA for clarification on the matter.

It does seem odd that the Red Bull can scrape the plank in low fuel qually and yet then carry 200 litres of fuel without grounding everywhere.

It could of course just be another clever engineering idea that defeats the regulations, like the F duct.

[Pixx]

Red Bull deny using ride height system

Red Bull have denied using a controversial ride height control system in their cars after McLaren suggested their Formula One rivals could be using technology which they had considered illegal.

"There's no such system on our car," a Red Bull spokeswoman said in response to comments from McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh.

Whitmarsh claimed after qualifying at the Australian Grand Prix that McLaren were racing to develop a ride height control system of their own after noticing that some cars, Red Bull included, were running closer to the ground than expected in qualifying.

Asked by former McLaren and Red Bull racer David Coulthard, who acts as both a television pundit and a consultant to Red Bull, who might have such systems, Whitmarsh told the BBC: "I think it looks like Red Bull and some other cars are able to run lower in qualifying than you would expect if they are then going to fill the car with fuel afterwards."

Active ride systems, pioneered by the original Lotus team and then used to great effect by Williams, have been banned under regulations since 1993 but a ratchet device could have a similar effect without being illegally powered.

The advantage would come in the final phase of qualifying, with the cars able to run lower on the ground than rivals before then starting the race on a similar ride height.

"Frankly a few months ago if the engineers had come to me and said: 'We're going to design this system,' I would have said: 'Actually, I don't think it's permissible,'" Whitmarsh said.

"There's some evidence that perhaps such systems are considered legal and if they are then we're going to get one as quick as we can. It's an opportunity for us to have a look at it."

Whitmarsh said he hoped the technology could be developed in time for the fourth round of the season, the Chinese Grand Prix on April 18.

McLaren's Jenson Button will start Sunday's race from fourth place while his British team mate Lewis Hamilton occupies 11th place after a disappointing qualifying session in Melbourne.

Red Bull hold both front-row spots for Sunday's race after German driver Sebastian Vettel led Australian team mate Mark Webber for his second pole of the season.

Formula One commentators have highlighted how the wooden plank on the underside of the Red Bull car occasionally appears to scrape the surface of the track, sending out puffs of dust, while qualifying on low fuel.

They have suggested that there must be a mechanism to restore the ride height when the car then starts the race with a full tank.

Whitmarsh's comments, at the second race of the season, came after Red Bull boss Christian Horner triggered a controversy over the McLaren's rear wing in the run-up to the championship opener in Bahrain.

Renault F1 managing director Bob Bell said at Sakhir that he felt the McLaren wing was "fundamentally illegal" and a breach of the spirit of the rules and regulations.

However, Horner conceded at the time that the governing FIA had looked at it and deemed it legal, adding that "it's therefore a clever design as opposed to illegal design".
Reuters

[Pixx]

Horner says no ride-height system on Red Bull car

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner late on Saturday denied that the RB6 car is running a controversial ride-height adjustment system.

After Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber dominated qualifying in Melbourne, McLaren chief Martin Whitmarsh suggested they had been boosted by a system that allowed the cars to remain low to the ground despite the huge load of fuel that must now be added for Sunday's race.

Whitmarsh said he had "evidence of ride-height control systems" being in use, "which many people wouldn't have thought were permissible", and that McLaren would therefore have to also design one.

But Red Bull's Horner told the BBC that he could "absolutely guarantee" the RB6 has no such system.

It must be noted that Whitmarsh had said after qualifying that he thought "some cars" - not just the Red Bull - were running a ride-height system.

Before leaving Albert Park late on Saturday, Mercedes' Ross Brawn indicated that he is aware of the claims about the systems, and encouraged the FIA to make a ruling.

Horner, meanwhile, hinted that sour grapes might be in play, after he was the one who blew the whistle on McLaren's F-duct prior to Bahrain.

"There are funny things happening at McLaren -- Lewis managing Mark, Ron reckoning we have a fuel problem and now Martin reckons we have a ride-height control," said the Briton.

[zing]

Next, Mclaren is going to suspect that Red Bull is actually better than them this year.

[lightmas]

Well...Red Bull must be doing something, because there car was scraping the ground in Q3..

[clovnul]

I wonder who will be the first to talk about spirit of the rules.

[Paolo_Lasardi]

^ You.

[moonraker]

Next, Mclaren is going to suspect that Red Bull is actually better than them this year.

We don't need the FIA to confirm that, sadly

[clovnul]

We should make a petition for that. FIA should choose the winner based on spirit of the rules.

[moonraker]

Interesting that the rule states a powered device is illegal and that no adjustment can be done while the car is in motion.
Ferrari can adjust the height during a pitstop from the outside, I wonder if Red Bull have some sort of mechanical devise that the driver operates when in the car but stationary ??

[lightmas]

We should make a petition for that. FIA should choose the winner based on spirit of the rules.

HRT would win that....

the spirit of the rules was to cut downforce..

[moonraker]

A possible system, from James Allen's site :

Other teams are scratching their heads about how Red Bull might have achieved that, but one suggestion is that they may be exploiting the regulation that allows teams to re-gas pressurize the dampers between qualifying and the race. If this is the case then they would get the benefit of running the car low in qualifying and then raise it up when the fuel is added. Hence their stunning qualifying form.

[MONSTAR]

Next, Mclaren is going to suspect that Red Bull is actually better than them this year.

[Paolo_Lasardi]

FIA: Ride height devices would be illegal

By Simon Strang Wednesday, April 7th 2010, 15:24 GMT


The FIA has told Formula 1's teams that any self-levelling damper system used to regulate the ride height of a car between qualifying and the race during a grand prix weekend would be deemed illegal.

An FIA spokesman confirmed to AUTOSPORT that the sport's governing body made its position on the matter clear by faxing the teams last Sunday night with a clarification on the use of suspension in Formula 1.

"Any system device or procedure, the purpose and/or effect of which is to change the set-up of the suspension, while the car is under parc ferme conditions will be deemed to contravene art 34.5* of the sporting regulations," read the communication.

The move follows Red Bull Racing's stringent denial during the Malaysian Grand Prix weekend that it was using a clever system that lowered its cars in order to maxmise their potential during qualifying - with team boss Christian Horner insisting that not only did Red Bull not have such a device, but that it would protest any team that ran one.

The FIA gave the RB6 the all-clear after a thorough inspection during the weekend, but rival teams have suggested that Red Bull may have found a way to achieve the affect without the use of a mechanical system.

But another line in the communication suggests that any such solution may also be outlawed: "Furthermore we believe that any self levelling damper system is likely to contravene 3.15** of the technical regulations."

McLaren indicated last weekend that it intends to develop a system of its own that would allow it to exploit its car's low-fuel potential, while Mercedes' Ross Brawn has called for a clarification of the rules.

*Article 34.5 states: If a competitor modifies any part on the car or makes changes to the set up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc fermé conditions the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 38.2.

** Article 3.15 states: Aerodynamic influence :

With the exception of the cover described in Article 6.5.2 (when used in the pit lane), the driver adjustable bodywork described in Article 3.18 and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance:

- must comply with the rules relating to bodywork

- must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom) ;

- must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.

Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances.

No part having an aerodynamic influence and no part of the bodywork, with the exception of the skid block in 3.13 above, may under any circumstances be located below the reference plane.

Something coming up here ...?

[clovnul]

Yeah, more money needed for developing on one of the sides.

[Mach]

I think its amazing how these engineers still figure out ways to get around rules to get more speed or downforce etc

[MCL2k10]

I think its amazing how these engineers still figure out ways to get around rules to get more speed or downforce etc

Yes, that's just the idea I wanted to point out. If the regs are as grey as they are, engineers will always find some way to gain some tenths by bending these rules.

[Mach]

I think its amazing how these engineers still figure out ways to get around rules to get more speed or downforce etc

Yes, that's just the idea I wanted to point out. If the regs are as grey as they are, engineers will always find some way to gain some tenths by bending these rules.

There is just so much money at stake

[emziibbyx]

I personally think that McLaren are shouting 'FIRE! FIRE!' over nothing...

[Zag]

There's no smoke without fire....

How could you scrape the floor with little fuel and not with full tanks...

[ferrfin]

There's no smoke without fire....

How could you scrape the floor with little fuel and not with full tanks...

....only if the suspension isnt connected to anything

[Nico Rosberg]

If you have a very stiff suspension, your car won't be affected by weight as much... These aren't road cars. The stiffer the suspension is, the better... Well, not really, but still.

[Reignman]

I think its amazing how these engineers still figure out ways to get around rules to get more speed or downforce etc

Yes, that's just the idea I wanted to point out. If the regs are as grey as they are, engineers will always find some way to gain some tenths by bending these rules.

It's not a matter of grey areas, it's just talent.

the best engineers work for F1 teams. FIA has "experts" but they do not have th skills that you can find in Paragon, Enstone, Maranello etc...otherwise the F1 teams would hire them.
Besides, team designers and engineers have the best equipment available on the market, so they can investigate more and more.

Trust me, next year, DDD will be banned and some team (one or more) will find something, and we will start again.