Illegal Wings on Red Bull & Ferrari?

[Paolo_Lasardi]

Flexible wings row set to hit Formula 1

By Jonathan Noble Sunday, July 25th 2010, 11:52 GMT


A row over flexible front wings looks set to overshadow the German Grand Prix with a number of teams expressing concerns to the FIA about the designs on the Red Bull Racing and Ferrari cars.

AUTOSPORT has learned that several outfits are unhappy with the fact that photographs of the RB6 and F10 at speed appear to show the front wings running much lower to the ground than rival outfits.

The pictures, a number of which were first published in French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche on Sunday, indicate that the FIA-prescribed central section of the front wing could be tipping forward to help lower the entire wing - and especially the endplates - much closer to the ground.

The FIA regulations stipulate that the central section should be 75mm above the reference plane – so 85mm from the ground taking into account the under-car plank. Rival teams suggest from their analysis of trackside photographs that the wings under question are running much lower than that.

If the wing is flexing, rather than it doing so to help improve straightline speed, such an action could in theory help produce a better 'ground effect' situation – which will boost downforce in high speed corners.

One leading engineer suggested that the benefits of having a wing operate in such a manner to seal off the air around it could be worth up to three tenths of a second per lap.

AUTOSPORT understands that discussions have taken place between a number of teams and the FIA at this weekend's German Grand Prix, and that the governing body has been handed photographic evidence to indicate the height differences of the front wings between the Red Bull Racing and Ferrari machines, and other cars on the grid.

The teams at the centre of the controversy both insist that they are doing nothing wrong – although it is possible that the FIA may look into the designs of both cars after the German Grand Prix has finished in its normal post-race scrutineering checks.

Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner said before the Hockenheim race that he had no doubts his car complied with the regulations, and that if rivals were unhappy about the situation they should speak to him – or even go ahead and protest his outfit.

"Obviously the car has to comply with all the tests that the FIA prescribe, which are fairly comprehensive," Horner told AUTOSPORT. "We are happy that our car complies in every area."

"Using photographs is always dangerous. If the teams feel that there is a problem with it, normally the gentlemanly thing to do is to raise it with the team or, if they feel that there is a dramatic problem, obviously they have a right to protest. But we are happy that our car complies with the regulations.

"Using photographic evidence is only ever subjective because, has the camera moved? What is the fuel weight in the car? Has the driver braked heavier? Are the tyres pressures lower? There are so many variables that can influence what a picture looks like."

Article 3.15 of the F1 technical regulations states that bodywork that affects the aerodynamic performance of the car: "must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom)" and "must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car."

Such flexibility in the front wing is tested with a deflection test on the wing endplates, but there is currently no test for the flexibility of the central section.

Should the FIA find anything wrong with the designs of the car there are a number of options open to it.

If there is a blatant breach of the regulations it could choose to disqualify such cars from the race, or it could introduce a fresh wing deflection test for the next event in a bid to deter teams from trying to get the front wing to flex in such a way.

Another possibility is for one of the teams that is upset about the matter to take the issue as far as a protest.

Should the FIA give the designs the all clear, then it will be up to other outfits to work out ways to copy the wing designs in a bid to boost their own performance.

Does that explain Red Bull's superiority and Ferrari's sudden competitiveness?

[lightmas]

Well, if there is a problem teams would be in the process of protesting.

But i dont think there is a problem. Every time someone is quick, other teams just make stupid comments about the car being illegal, e.g red bull ride height.

[Pixx]

they should let them use it, put other teams in extra costs to copy it, and then ban it at the end of the season.

i think that's how it goes these days.

[arizal_adl]

yea.. what ever happened to RBR right height claim?

[Paolo_Lasardi]

they should let them use it, put other teams in extra costs to copy it, and then ban it at the end of the season.

i think that's how it goes these days.

[esterence]

the commentators noticed it as well...

[clovnul]

I always wondered how they check a car if it is ok. I don't think this is a thing you do in one day. I remember reading once that some parts are going through scrutiny in an aleatory check.

[Pixx]

I always wondered how they check a car if it is ok. I don't think this is a thing you do in one day. I remember reading once that some parts are going through scrutiny in an aleatory check.

checking all the car should take quite some time. (and i'm pretty sure the teams can hide some stuff).

as for the wing, they would hang some ballast on the wing and see how much it gives. there should be a limit for a certain amount of weight according to the rules. takes 2 minutes.

[Prefect]

If you look at the TV footage from inside the Red Bull you can actually see that the front wing is flexing (or lowering itself) by some margin. I first thought that it was the suspension that made it look like the front wing got lower but then I looked more closely and I think the front wing is actually pushed down towards the ground when the car is accelerating.

Edit: However if it's legal or not, I have no idea...

[GUP]

as for the wing, they would hang some ballast on the wing and see how much it gives. there should be a limit for a certain amount of weight according to the rules. takes 2 minutes.

Silly me, i thought one official will jump on the wing while the other is laid down to see how far it goes.

[RoRo]

Yeah, just like the red part of this wing bending up and down with the change of the speed:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcrlc0_accrochage-hamilton-webber-onboard_sport

And I'm not talking about the shaking motion of that thing.

[Ferrari]

Rules apply often only to specific areas of parts, that can be measured and if someone 'invent' movements in other areas eventually competitors will question that. And if it is not comparable with the specific measure points there will be such investigations and likely it will be no penalty since it is not specified in the rules (but it may will and probably not legal the very next race)

[Prefect]

Well, I meant more that the whole wing is lowered on the RBR at speed, not just a part on it.

[Razgreez]

If you look at the TV footage from inside the Red Bull you can actually see that the front wing is flexing (or lowering itself) by some margin. I first thought that it was the suspension that made it look like the front wing got lower but then I looked more closely and I think the front wing is actually pushed down towards the ground when the car is accelerating.

Edit: However if it's legal or not, I have no idea...

Yeah myself and my friend noticed the same thing. We were debating whether it was legal or not. In my opinion there was "nothing" wrong with it based on past experience watching the renault's front wing flex a few yrs ago. In his opinion it was clearly flexing too much. I doubt anything will come of this

[lightmas]

The FIA has given the front wing designs of Red Bull Racing and Ferrari the all-clear in post German Grand Prix inspections, following a flexi-parts row in the build-up to the race.

Photographs taken of the two cars over the course of the Hockenheim event appeared to indicate that their front wings were flexing in such a way that the endplates were able to run much lower to the ground - which would give the two teams a downforce advantage in high-speed corners.

AUTOSPORT understands that the FIA was alerted to the situation by rival outfits, and the front wing designs were monitored over the weekend – including a full inspection of the wing in post-race scrutineering.

It is believed there was also dialogue between the teams at the centre of the controversy and the FIA for them to give explanations as to why the wings appeared to be running closer to the ground than their rivals.

The FIA was happy that the explanations – which included the fact that photographs were not guaranteed to have been taken from the same angle, that the cars may not have been running the same amounts of fuel, or had different rear ride heights that would affect the front wing design – did not indicate anything suspicious.

A statement issued by the FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer after the German Grand Prix confirmed that the Red Bull Racing and Ferrari cars were inspected and found to be within the rules.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali, who discussed the wing matter with McLaren in the build-up to the race, said on Sunday night that the situation did not worry him.

"I've seen some pictures of the wing, but you could see that they were taken from very different angles," he said. "So, I don't have anything to say on that. I feel that is part of the pressure that is part of the game."

Earlier in the day, Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner said he had no doubts that the wings on his car were legal.

"Obviously the car has to comply with all the tests that the FIA prescribe, which are fairly comprehensive," Horner told AUTOSPORT. "We are happy that our car complies in every area.

"Using photographs is always dangerous. If the teams feel that there is a problem with it, normally the gentlemanly thing to do is to raise it with the team or, if they feel that there is a dramatic problem, obviously they have a right to protest. But we are happy that our car complies with the regulations.

"Using photographic evidence is only ever subjective because, has the camera moved? What is the fuel weight in the car? Has the driver braked heavier? Are the tyres pressures lower? There are so many variables that can influence what a picture looks like."

Rival teams who were suspicious of the Red Bull Racing and Ferrari design will now have to decide whether they now also need to find ways to lower their front wings in a bid to find a performance boost.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85563

[Rus-Evo]

I say they should introduce a new test right away.

And if Ferrari had complained about someone else I can imagine they would be called whingers lol.

[Prefect]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/photo-exclusive-red-bull-flexi-front-wing-judge-for-yourself/

Not the best photo evidence, it is easier to see that the wing is lowering itself in videos from the drivers pov.

Seems like Red Bull (and Ferrari later on) found a way to get around the "flexing rule" which states that the wing should not flex more than 10mm when applying 500N.

Edit: Might be one answer to why the Red Bull car likes high speed corners?
Edit2: Found a video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1KexFnjwA

[MONSTAR]

The RB and Ferrari wings are defently lower but who's to know if the oics were taken at the start of the race and the Mac ones at the end? Or if theres a bump in the track or under breaking??

But im leaning more towards that Ferrari and RB's wings are flexing

[MONSTAR]

Cant judge by that vid. Of coarse the front end will compress down under hard breaking. Thats why it looks like the wing is flexing

[Rus-Evo]

Monstar cant you see the gunman on the grassy knoll??

But seriously the wing flex thing is exactly the kind of thing teams sometimes get pinged for (because they design them to pass testsm rather than within the spirit of the rules).

So just make a new test!!

[Prefect]

Yeah, that was not a good video since as you said the whole front of the car will be pushed down to the ground...

Here is however a picture where you can compare towards the car rather than the tyres: http://a.imageshack.us/img638/7134/rb6germany.gif

[MONSTAR]

i reckon i had to look at that for 3 mins untill my eyes adjusted

But thats a good comparison. Wing is flexing but like i said before, how do we kow if there is a bump their.

Evan look at the tyres at how much they change shape. I would have thought they got skinnier at top speed than wider. Maybe its jump my eyes playing tricks

[Prefect]

Hehe they are skinnier? There are other pics like that one taken on other tracks so I think we can rule out bumps .

Well well... very cleverly done by Newey and his aerodynamics team. It will be interesting to see how fast the other teams will introduce a new front wing, or if the tests will change.

[Schumacat]

Seems like Ferrari have already found the secret to this while Mclaren still don't understand how Redbull and Ferrari are doing this. This could also be the reason for Ferrari's resurgence.

[RED DEVIL FAN]

redbull has been using this front wing for so long and nobody seems to care. But when Ferrari become competitive, this kind of things come out.