FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Rus-Evo on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:21 pm

zing wrote:

 Nico never lost points by not making a corner or being passed on track - so this is not the same.
He may have lost points for missing a corner twice in this GP!!
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:47 am

zing wrote:
I was refering to Nico speaking Italian in the room with the Merc engineer.  

 Zag, don't complain too much about Stewart - the conspiracy about Merc favoring Nico and giving him
better reliability/pit stops/strategy  is 10 times more rampant.

Personally I think Nico's straight ons through the chicane were strange > but the explanation of not flat
spotting a tyre suffices ....
 

I think that was just Nico's way of snubbing Lewis, as he did after qualifying... That said more about
what he really thought about being beaten than anything else he said..
I don't speak Italian but plenty do and if he had said anything the world would have known..

It seems the norm these days to look for conspiracy theories in most events....  personally I think it
ridiculous to think that Mercedes would pay a guy that kind of money and then hobble his chances...
Mercedes don't mind who wins as long as it is one of them, be they German, English or even Canadian.... :-)

I have never been a fan of Stewart..

No big deal, Nico missed his braking point a couple of times... Lewis won fair and square.

cat

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by F1 forever on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:32 pm

LOL, Montezemolo is so full of sh*t

Rumours started circulating from the beginning of the Italian Grand Prix weekend that Montezemolo, 67, would be announcing his retirement, but the Ferrari president used his Saturday appearance at Monza to play down the reports. Montezemolo said he intends to see out a minimum of the next three years at Ferrari and added "I will be the first - and I emphasise the first" to announce when he does leave.

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/174707.html

Luca di Montezemolo will step down as Ferrari chairman, putting an end to a week of speculation about his future.

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/174827.html

I chuckled, and I emphasise chuckled, when I read this.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:59 pm

I think his long man-hug of Alonso at the weekend said it all....

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by F1 forever on Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:19 pm

Zag wrote:I think his long man-hug of Alonso at the weekend said it all....

cat

Which made me think of Alonso's comments:

"I'm happy Luca is staying, obviously we've had a very nice relationship in the last five years. I think President Montezemolo always cares a lot about the atmosphere of the team and the relationship with all the members of the team, especially with the drivers. I talk to him a lot on the telephone a lot in the weekends and not in the weekends. He told me on Thursday night all these rumours were not true so I was aware of this and happy to have him president again."

Luca keeping Alonso in the loop!
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:33 pm

Rus-Evo wrote:
zing wrote:

 Nico never lost points by not making a corner or being passed on track - so this is not the same.  
He may have lost points for missing a corner twice in this GP!!

That's my point Russ. I would not be that happy about it.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:54 pm

7 points could be decisive at the end of the season yes...  but nothing like
as bad as the points Lewis has lost through bad luck/car problems/collisions..

Nico certainly lost others points for not making a corner at Monaco!!!

Just in the last two races Nico's net gain was 18 points.

That is why Nico can smile.....

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by F1 forever on Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:58 pm

Let's face it, unless something unexpected and, judging by how the season has gone for both drivers, highly unlikely happens, Nico is going to win the championship without much of a fight. He can even afford to continue to make mistakes like this at every race.

Because at the end of the day, it's 3 DNFs vs. 1 DNF, it's 2 times starting from the back of the grid vs. 0 times, and the bulk of additional, strange "errors" on Lewis' part of the garage...it's been an uphill battle for Lewis because of this all season long, and there's nothing that suggests it's going to be any different going forward.

And if Lewis manages to still narrow the gap a bit - Rosberg has shown in Monaco and Spa how he's handling that. It's clearly working for him, regardless of how you personally judge those incidents. That's plenty of reasons to smile.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:09 pm

Zag wrote:7 points could be decisive at the end of the season yes...  but nothing like
as bad as the points Lewis has lost through bad luck/car problems/collisions..

Nico certainly lost others points for not making a corner at Monaco!!!

Just in the last two races Nico's net gain was 18 points.

That is why Nico can smile.....

cat

The vast majority of Lewis's lost points are reliability.

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:19 pm

F1 forever wrote:Let's face it, unless something unexpected and, judging by how the season has gone for both drivers, highly unlikely happens, Nico is going to win the championship without much of a fight. He can even afford to continue to make mistakes like this at every race.

Because at the end of the day, it's 3 DNFs vs. 1 DNF, it's 2 times starting from the back of the grid vs. 0 times, and the bulk of additional, strange "errors" on Lewis' part of the garage...it's been an uphill battle for Lewis because of this all season long, and there's nothing that suggests it's going to be any different going forward.

And if Lewis manages to still narrow the gap a bit - Rosberg has shown in Monaco and Spa how he's handling that. It's clearly working for him, regardless of how you personally judge those incidents. That's plenty of reasons to smile.

Rosberg was up against a wall after losing 4 straight to Lewis, A couple of good races and Lewis's bad luck put him in front.
His pace at the moment seems to be failing and now that the season is coming down to the wire - Lewis has the upper hand.
It's far from over.

Rosberg's record of driver on track and off up until 2014 is completely clean. The people who incorrectly refer to Bahrain
2012 as an example of dirty driving are ignorant and don't know the rules and other than that Rosberg has no previous BS
in his career, in the car or in the public eye. This year he's a piece of crap and taking a beating - I think I could have predicted this quite easily given the position he is in, it was bound to happen. We can argue about what Spa and Monaco represent, but when it comes down to it whoever has been in the opposite seat versus Hamilton has been subject to the same drama except for Heiki who was a lapdog servant for Mclaren. Slice it like you want ... all of this was predictable.

Lewis has the momentum. Nico is weakened after Spa and Italy. I hope the two have a clean racing weekend and the better driver win.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by F1 forever on Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:48 pm

zing, so you're saying the patterns we've seen this season might not hold. I hope so, but I've seen no indication of that happening.

It all started with the first race, when Lewis was on pole, had a DNF, and Nico got the victory. The points gap is more or less the same 12 races later. And that's despite Lewis winning 6 out of 8 races that he could finish/didn't have to start at the back of the grid.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:59 pm

The problem with whoever is in the opposite seat to Lewis is that they aren't as good!!!!!!

Nico has said plenty... not in the same naïve way as Lewis, but said nonetheless...

I am not ignorant, know the rules, and still believe Nico at Bahrain was out of order, regardless of what the stewards decided...
I would be more inclined to believe Monaco was a simple mistake if he had just sat there...

Nico is not, I repeat not squeaky clean however often you might say he is..

I don't think Nico is taking a beating, not in a bad position at all, in the team, in the points or elsewhere, and nothing this year has been predictable..

The only way the better driver can win is if Lewis takes the title...

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:29 pm

F1 forever wrote:zing, so you're saying the patterns we've seen this season might not hold. I hope so, but I've seen no indication of that happening.

It all started with the first race, when Lewis was on pole, had a DNF, and Nico got the victory. The points gap is more or less the same 12 races later. And that's despite Lewis winning 6 out of 8 races that he could finish/didn't have to start at the back of the grid.

I'm saying Lewis is not out of it at all. Nico seems to be losing what he once had going .... He should have won Italy with a bit to spare.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:29 pm

Zag wrote:The problem with whoever is in the opposite seat to Lewis is that they aren't as good!!!!!!

Nico has said plenty... not in the same naïve way as Lewis, but said nonetheless...

I am not ignorant, know the rules, and still believe Nico at Bahrain was out of order, regardless of what the stewards decided...
I would be more inclined to believe Monaco was a simple mistake if he had just sat there...

Nico is not, I repeat not squeaky clean however often you might say he is..

I don't think Nico is taking a beating, not in a bad position at all, in the team, in the points or elsewhere, and nothing this year has been predictable..

The only way the better driver can win is if Lewis takes the title...

cat


I respect your opinion - we don't agree and that is ok. However, the drama associated with Lewis in a team is not relative to them
"that they aren't as good ." If that were the case ... as in Heiki who was no threat at all to Lewis - we wouldn't see what we have seen with Alonso, Button and Rosberg. 2013 is a perfect example of no threat - no drama - Lewis was ahead the entire season due to Nico's
DNF's ... take 2014 and it's someone is not a real German, not hungry - I should be dominating easily - Nico's not my friend ...

You are ignorant of the rules if you use Bahrain an example of dirty driving. Since a car never even came close to even getting it's
nose beside Nico in either FA or Lewis - there are no grounds what so ever of an infraction. In order to be forced off the track you would have to be beside a car - not behind. The rules state that a defending car can use the entire width of the circuit.






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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:23 pm

I really do know the rules... to me swerving like that wasn't in the 'spirit' of racing... It wasn't the first time (or last)
that Nico has done something like that...  A few years ago a certain driver would have been penalised for such driving....

I, like most, wish Lewis would keep his mouth shut at times.. I think he speaks naively and out of frustration at times
and would do better to say nothing...  and I do think he should ask not to always have his radio broadcast...

Nico isn't and has never been his Lewis's friend....  and has said very similar things but in his smiley way...

I do accept that Lewis can sometimes be his own worst enemy, but what a racer....

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:26 pm

I agree about swerving and changing direction or many changes of direction - that's really not cool - however all the telemetry showed that he made (started) the move before both Lewis and Alonso and stayed on a fixed trajectory and delta to the car "behind."   If he had forced either of them off removing space from them I wouldn't be saying anything in defense of Nico - but that's not the case.  Funny thing - this year Vettel did the same very move at Bahrain and we didn't hear squat about it.  Meanwhile>  Spirit of racing ... right ... some squeeze others off in a corner and it's called great defending and or overtaking ..

Lewis is a great racer - nobody is denying that.   Rosberg has more  in him than most give him - but I'm not that silly to say that without Lewis's reliability issues he would be leading the championship.
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:38 am

We are broadly in agreement.........  :-)

I complained about Vettel and always have...  I think he is one driver you don't want to have to overtake.. one of the worst/nastiest defenders...
Even in this last race, on old tyres and slower he couldn't even do the decent thing and give Daniel an easy pass..

Egos, big egos... they all have them.....

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by zing on Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:12 pm

Well considering the beating he is taking at the hands of DR ... I would think he'd roll over and make it easier for him. I would not see Lewis doing that either .... Imagine if Ricciardo was level with Nico right now and how that would play out...
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Mach1 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:41 am

Zag wrote:I complained about Vettel and always have...  I think he is one driver you don't want to have to overtake.. one of the worst/nastiest defenders...
Even in this last race, on old tyres and slower he couldn't even do the decent thing and give Daniel an easy pass..

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That's how it should be Suspect

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:59 pm

Normally yes, but not when its your team mate and you don't have a hope in hell of the championship...

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by F1 forever on Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:56 pm

At least Vettel didn't rosberg him! 👅
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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Mach1 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:26 pm

Zag wrote:Normally yes, but not when its your team mate and you don't have a hope in hell of the championship...

cat

But what other entertainment does F1 provide considering Merc dominance?

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:55 pm


You are not enjoying the gripping ongoing soap opera that is Mercedes...??

Thought there was also plenty of good racing down the field....

cat





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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Mach1 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:32 am

Zag wrote:
You are not enjoying the gripping ongoing soap opera that is Mercedes...??

Thought there was also plenty of good racing down the field....

cat

Zag wrote:Normally yes, but not when its your team mate and you don't have a hope in hell of the championship...

cat

Right, so now we're seeing Vettel causing blocking issues this season down the field as a #2 driver. Strange thing is, the press don't seem as terribly upset about it

Soap opera that is Mercedes...used to be soap opera that was RBR-Webber/Vettel...used to be Brawn-F1 soap opera with Rubens before that.  Same claimed favoritism #1 driver over #2

F1 would be more entertaining if Merc boys, Botas, Ricardo and Alonso could duke it out inside 2 seconds of each other race in and race out

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Re: FORMULA 1 GRAN PREMIO D'ITALIA 2014

Post by Zag on Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21 am

I wasn't terribly upset about it either...  just hoped for more from Vettel..

F1 has always been a soap opera, from the earliest days...  Usually one team
dominating...  team mate squabbles...  team orders...  favouritism...  falling outs...
making ups....  sleeping with your team mates wife... (Ok, not this last one... unless you
count Heinz-Harald...)

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