Driver Fear!

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Driver Fear!

Post by RaySinKa on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:45 am

Sitting with my coffee this morning and musing about F1 and I started to wonder what is missing? One thing that came to my mind is driver fear! I don't want more accidents and injuries but it seems, to me, that the cars are so safe, strong and drivers so well protected that they can make moves without fear of the consequences.

Freak accidents like Massa's spring incident and Bianchi's are unlikely to be repeated but moves that end in hard contact would not have been so bullet proof a few years back. However overtakes like Webber's at Spa a few years back would have been even greater for the consequences of getting it wrong but I believe there would still be drivers who would have tried it.

My thoughts are partially prompted by a book I'm reading, the autobiography of a motor cyclist called Guy Martin. In the foreword he describes a 170mph, 270kph accident at the Isle of Man TT races. Having fallen, done what he could he simply says that his thoughts were, "this is going to hurt."

_________________
Bored with F1!!!!!

Gone over to Moto GP!

Where they race in the rain.
Ride flat out.
Overtake using speed and skill.

Bye, Bye.

Ray
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by 00521 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:50 pm

RaySinKa wrote:Sitting with my coffee this morning and musing about F1 and I started to wonder what is missing? One thing that came to my mind is driver fear! I don't want more accidents and injuries but it seems, to me, that the cars are so safe, strong and drivers so well protected that they can make moves without fear of the consequences.

Freak accidents like Massa's spring incident and Bianchi's are unlikely to be repeated but moves that end in hard contact would not have been so bullet proof a few years back. However overtakes like Webber's at Spa a few years back would have been even greater for the consequences of getting it wrong but I believe there would still be drivers who would have tried it.

My thoughts are partially prompted by a book I'm reading, the autobiography of a motor cyclist called Guy Martin. In the foreword he describes a 170mph, 270kph accident at the Isle of Man TT races. Having fallen, done what he could he simply says that his thoughts were, "this is going to hurt."

Ray,

Absolutely Agree.

The young drivers of today have no sense of fear because this generation has been protected by the best safety gear that applied aerospace engineering can provide, better safety cell engineering in fact, (in some ways) than many fighter pilots have.

Being a Gilles, or a Fangio, or a Clark or Nuvolari in the past was extraordinary, because they overcame the fear of CERTAIN DEATH in every race. The odds were always that before the season was over, someone on the grid would die horribly. Overcoming that fear was 'part of the game'.

One tiny mistake or car failure and you died like Jim Clark, Swede Savage, Ronnie Peterson... or Jules Bianchi's relative Lucien Bianchi.

The idiotic Grosjean accident that almost decapitated Alonso should have been a wake up call for FOM and FIA,... but they did nothing.

IMHO, there has to be a ballistic canopy, and that will mean onboard fire suppression.

F-1 cars are so fast now, that even a thrown pebble from a car ahead, in the wrong circumstances can easily kill the driver, just like a bullet.

Speed is definitely NOT everything. Safety is FAR more important.




Cordial Best,

00521
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by Rus-Evo on Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:35 pm

How do you encourage healthy fear amongst sociopathically-fast-competitive risk takers in a sport that will probably continue to get safer?

Ray maybe you can educate us on the daredevil mentality!!!! Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by RaySinKa on Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:25 am

Rus-Evo wrote:

How do you encourage healthy fear amongst sociopathically-fast-competitive risk takers in a sport that will probably continue to get safer?

Ray maybe you can educate us on the daredevil mentality!!!! Very Happy Very Happy


Para 1. Difficult, maybe impossible. Except by teaching respect.

Para 2. Sadly I no longer can. It is an age thing, and nowadays my brain tries to rule my body. I have noticed that when I fall off my mountain bike I no longer "bounce" as well as I used to. Also the bruises take longer to disappear and other more serious injuries hurt more and take far too long to heal.

The last time I had a ditch to jump I found that I was counting the ways it could go wrong rather than just jumping the gap. On another occassion when confronting a rocky stream bed I needed to ride down my thought included;

If I fall in my phone will get wet!
Do I want to have to put a wet and muddy bike into the back of the car!
How long will it take to clean the bike and car when I got back?

_________________
Bored with F1!!!!!

Gone over to Moto GP!

Where they race in the rain.
Ride flat out.
Overtake using speed and skill.

Bye, Bye.

Ray
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by 00521 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:18 pm

Rus-Evo wrote:How do you encourage healthy fear amongst sociopathically-fast-competitive risk takers in a sport that will probably continue to get safer?

Ray maybe you can educate us on the daredevil mentality!!!! Very Happy Very Happy

Rus,

I know the meaning of the phrase 'Healthy Fear' (maybe RESPECT might be a better term than FEAR...) as I really don't think fear (itself) and its natural relative... panic are healthy.

However, there is such a thing as the more modern phrase... 'Total Situational Awareness'.

In every situation, we should be aware of what can GO WRONG, as well as our actual objective.

ALWAYS give oneself an OUT.

Where to go / what to do, instinctively... if something goes wrong. Beyond accident avoidance.

This goes for everything in life, driving fast (or slow, according to conditions) in particular.

I think this is what young drivers are not taught enough or conditioned enough... in... today.

Being able to instantly respond in a valid way that not only moves one past an opponent, but also prevents a crash in doing so... and foreseeing that strategy and the moves at least several laps ahead, if possible... not car control, but deep intuition and with that an intuitive response, predicated upon one's skill sets and the sets of OTHERS... with an attention to always being (somehow... logically) safe... while also therefore... smoother and faster... (does that somehow make sense???)

There can be no winning if you do not take risks, but those risks must be somehow sensible in the overall aggregate positioning of oneself on the grid and in the race and in the series and in being SAFE.. yet aggressive... as possible... Thus having a multiple layered race strategy that is far beyond 'go faster'.  

The best drivers always race strategically, in the deeper, intuitive, sense... and then seamlessly combine that with their 'go faster' skills... THEN push it to 10/10ths.


Cordial Best,

00521
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by RaySinKa on Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:04 pm

It looks like Sir Jackie Stewart is reading the thread Smile


_________________
Bored with F1!!!!!

Gone over to Moto GP!

Where they race in the rain.
Ride flat out.
Overtake using speed and skill.

Bye, Bye.

Ray
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by 00521 on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:50 pm

RaySinKa wrote:It looks like Sir Jackie Stewart is reading the thread Smile

Ray,

I agree... He's been right for decades on this issue...

Can we even imagine the stress of that 30 minutes(?) when he was hanging upside down in the car... soaked in fuel...  and had to be cut out of his straps by Graham Hill and Bob Bondurant... the steering wheel removed with a wrench... and then carefully slid out from under the car... even as a nonchalant marshal smoked a cigarette (at first...!) right besides the car...

F-1 can in a way be thankful for that accident as he continued to protest the lack of safety mechanisms in racing at the time... imagine soaking one's race suit in borax to try to make it fireproof... helmets that were 'pudding dishes'... they were just barely good enough to hold pudding in... much less brains...

Brakes that did not brake, tires that were too skinny to grip, gas tanks that burst into flame... mechanical fuel injection that would sputter out if it were too hot... chassis that would wrap itself around the driver in a serious crash.

It all seems somewhat surreal now.

F-1 has become so safe now that anyone can drive fast now without a 'healthy dose of fear'... mistake have no penalty, and maybe it is that, which can be corrected, in the form of very strict penalties from the FIA, for the angry 'zig' that can throw the other guy off... or cause him to fly off the track into the marshals or spectators...

I will never forget the moment when Bandini caught fire... and burned to death... nor will I remember the moment Schumi so deliberately pushed his former teammate Rubens right to the wall along the straight some years back, out of sheer anger...rather than let him pass... (Rubens may have had 2 inches...) and yet, incredibly, no penalty was given...

No... racing can so easily kill when things go wrong... and the new crop of racers in F-1 have mostly forgotten that.

The lions of racing ultimately are still ruled by the laws of physics and unlike FIA's rules, those laws still have teeth...




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00521
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Re: Driver Fear!

Post by satos on Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:48 am

Some of the asphalt runoff areas they have now should be reverted back to gravel traps.
This will make the driver think twice about making a "ballsy" passing maneuver. Stuff the overtake, and his race will be most probably over stuck in the gravel trap. As it stands now, the driver knows if he stuffs up the maneuver he can simply plant his foot down and rejoin the circuit. The only penalty will be a 'stop & go' if he doesn't give the position back.
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