Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

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Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par RaySinKa le Jeu Nov 20, 2014 3:01 pm


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Gone over to Moto GP and Rallycross!

Where they race in the rain.
Ride flat out.
Overtake using speed and skill.

Bye, Bye.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Jarnooo le Jeu Nov 20, 2014 3:33 pm

Confirming what we knew about a month ago. Now for McLaren to announce Alonso. A real shame for whoever misses out on the 2nd McLaren seat. Not much time or space left on the grid. In fact, virtually none. Just the 2nd seat at Toro Rosso, which neither have a chance of getting, and Caterham/Manor, if they are on the grid season.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Jeu Nov 20, 2014 5:05 pm

I hope Honda delivers ... this Mercedes dominance is boring. Without SC-DNF's or Reliability issues - they would have won every race and 1-2's ...
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par JPS4ever le Jeu Nov 20, 2014 6:44 pm

Agreed Zing. Honda is our only chance since the engine freeze limitations will not allow the others to ever catch Merc Sad

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par tesla le Jeu Nov 20, 2014 10:32 pm

I keep hearing the same bs.  MB has the best engine and the rules are unfair sad3 ....cry me a river.  This is the most boring season...blah blah blah.  Where were you for the last 4 years?  We are at the last race and and we still don't know who the winner will be, but for some reason this is the boring one.
I specifically remember watching the start of every race from the past few years.  The start was the only opportunity for something to happen.  After the first few laps Vettel is >1.1sec ahead and it's time to go to sleep.  Not even Webber in the same car was able to challenge.  At the end of the race we had to watch his stupid finger waving knowing that the idiot would lose to any of the top drivers in the same car.  I'm almost certain that Kimi the old man is going to beat him or be about even with the "4x champ" next year.

1.  Rules were the same for everyone  
2.  MB didn't write the rules
3.  MB didn't even push for these engines
4.  Engine freeze is not really a freeze.  Aren't they allowed to change 50% of the parts?

If they were so concerned about the possibility of not getting the engine design correct and this rule being such a OBVIOUS mistake according to the "EXPERTS" today why didn't anyone voice their concerns during the past 3-4 years? Maybe they were too busy designing the next cheating device like flexi wings, traction control, etc  

If you can't get your shit together maybe it's time to retire and bring in some new engineers.  Renault and Ferrari remind me of the kid that didn't study for a test and now we need to have a open book test to be fair.

Mclaren has the best engine this year.  Let's assume that Honda was able to copy the whole thing perfectly.
What makes you think that Mclaren will start winning?

Maybe you guys didn't notice, but IT'S NOT JUST THE ENGINE.

For me this was one of the best season in a long time.  I admit that I miss the sound and MB is too fast, but we have two drivers fighting for the crown.  We have Daniel kicking ass in a car designed around Vettel.  We have Alonso and Kimi in the same car.  I always dreamed about Alonso vs Kimi.  I just wish we had Kimi from the Mclaren days.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Ven Nov 21, 2014 12:42 am

Yawn.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Jarnooo le Ven Nov 21, 2014 4:41 am

tesla is absolutely right.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Ven Nov 21, 2014 5:31 am

Jarnooo a écrit:tesla is absolutely right.

There's not one pundit, personality or anyone associated in F1 that agrees with the opinion
of the like of tesla. It's all hot air. Talking of the dominance of Red Bull compared to Mercedes
and an engine freeze is just funny shit.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Zag le Ven Nov 21, 2014 10:35 am



I am a pundit, a personality and associated with F1 and I agree with tesla...

cat


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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Ven Nov 21, 2014 12:35 pm

Zag a écrit:
 
I am a pundit, a personality and associated with F1 and I agree with tesla...

cat

 

Meowwww.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par JPS4ever le Ven Nov 21, 2014 5:19 pm

Tesla, so let me get this right. You're saying it's fair that teams are not allowed to develop their engines during the season or even in the off season very much? You think that what ever team got it right at the beginning of 2014 gets to keep that advantage, not only for the entire season but for years to come until there's another regulation change? Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

And as for RBR's dominance in the past years - I didn't like it either but as far as I know, there was no aerodynamic freeze that prevented other teams from developing their cars in order to catch Red Bull. They just built a better car and were able to stay ahead of the others in terms of developments. As boring as it was, RBR won on merit. In Merc's case, they were pretty much handed the constructor's trophy in pre-season testing this year and may get to keep it indefinitely, unless the engine freeze rules are changed.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Jarnooo le Ven Nov 21, 2014 6:01 pm

I think that, if everyone agrees to an engine freeze, it makes no sense for those same teams to want an 'unfreeze'. One reason being is it defeats the purpose and creates a lot of money wastage, another being that if Renault had the best engine, Horner would be saying what I said previously.

As for the engine being the only reason Merc are in front, why aren't Force India or Williams winning every race? They built the best engine, just as every other engine manufacturer had the opportunity to. They built the best car around it. If Williams were running away with the championship, then perhaps I'd agree with you, but there is no chance they were "handed" the WDC. Perhaps Red Bull should start making their own engines instead of complaining about Renault.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par JPS4ever le Ven Nov 21, 2014 7:16 pm

You have some valid points Jarnooo but ultimately I have to say, as a fan I think the rest of the teams are correct in asking for some modifications to the engine freeze rules. I don't want to see Merc and Merc based teams dominate for the next 5 years with the other teams having no chance to catch up. That would be unfair, boring and just plain bad for the sport.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par tesla le Sam Nov 22, 2014 1:08 am

Is this so hard to understand?
Why should Mercedes be penalized for the rules that everyone agreed to?
Why should they be penalized for the shortcomings of other teams?

In the real world, if you sign a contract and then change your mind you get penalized.
Maybe they need to look into penalizing any manufacturer that wants to make more than the allowed 50% changes.
Mercedes should get more prize money or more points to reward the hard work they did while playing under the rules that EVERYONE AGREED TO.

Let's not forget that Mercedes sacrificed at least 2013 maybe even 2012 to get to where they are today.  Meanwhile Horner and finger boy were taking advantage of all the resources that Redbull/Renault
and their Toro Rosso testing team was putting behind the old formula (flexi wings, special engine mappings, etc).

For example: RB/Renault put 70% of their funds toward the 2012/2013 car and only 30% toward the new 2014 rules. Unless you're an idiot, you can see how this approach with the complex 2014 power units can come back and bite you hard.  They get rewarded for 2012/2013 at the cost of not being prepared for the new rules.  

Now on the flip side, Mercedes has 30% toward the 2013 car and 70% on the 2014 car, knowing how complex and important it is to get it right.  They lose 2012/2013 but their wise investment and hard work is paying off in the new 2014+ era.  
Now the idiot Horner wants to rewrite the rules because he didn't put enough effort into the new rules to which HE AGREED TO. Horner wants the best of both worlds.  I'm sorry, but in the real world it doesn't work like that.

This goes for Ferrari as well.  If you guys want to change the rules because they suddenly don't suit you due to your own bad decisions then be ready to pay for it.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Sam Nov 22, 2014 2:57 am

After dominant periods of Ferrari and Red Bull and all the crying - FIA introduce rules/formula/platform are changed to put an end to their dominance - suddenly Mercedes dominate like no other team in the history of the sport and it's all justified because the other teams are idiots and want it both ways?  

If you are going to shit all over Redbull ..  and  prior to that write:

""Why should Mercedes be penalized for the rules that everyone agreed to?
Why should they be penalized for the shortcomings of other teams?""


One would have to ask you why did FIA abolished all of RB and  Adrian Newey's innovations that gave
them an advantage mid season .... and keeping in mind that those innovations were not against the
rules - So why was Red Bull "penalised" to use your word?

The worst part of your argument gets exposed by your obvious disdain for Red Bull and Vettel's dominance - meanwhile because it is Mercedes and Hamilton  (never mind Rosberg with you)  that have the dominance that shatters 40 years of racing - it's fine the rest are idiots ...

 I'm Mercedes supporter - have been since day one regardless of driver line-up .. but this dominance is the most boring shit for the sport.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par tesla le Sam Nov 22, 2014 5:39 am

zing a écrit:After dominant periods of Ferrari and Red Bull and all the crying - FIA introduce rules/formula/platform are changed to put an end to their dominance - suddenly Mercedes dominate like no other team in the history of the sport and it's all justified because the other teams are idiots and want it both ways?

So these rules were brought in to stop Redbull and Ferrari?   That is news to me.
Maybe you need do a little more research?
Who was the biggest advocate for the new engines?
Maybe you should ask Honda why they suddenly have a new interest in returning to F1 as well as some other potential manufacturers?

I'm not a fan of these engines or the rules, but at least I have the common sense to see that Redbull/Renault/Ferrari are in the wrong.  You're making it sound as if Mercedes designed the best engine then paid FIA to introduce the "BIG FREEZE"
Everyone is crying about a freeze which technically is not even a freeze.

Maybe we should wait at least one more season to see how things develop.  Honda is arriving with a Mercedes clone or better and they will have one of the top drivers.  Lotus will have a Mercedes engine which according to everyone against these rules is the only reason Mercedes is dominating.  The teams that didn't get it right for 2014 will have 100% of their resources toward this new era.  Just calm down a bit.  Dominance is never good...we had 4-5 years of Ferrari dominance then 4 years of RB dominance.  Now Mercedes gets 1 championship which by the way had far better racing compared to MS vs RB and SV vs MW and it's the end of the world.

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Sam Nov 22, 2014 6:30 am

You take the discussion into all sorts of directions which are not even worth debating.. stop exahgerating what is written to suit some agenda you have.

You're making it sound as if Mercedes designed the best engine then paid FIA to introduce the "BIG FREEZE"
Everyone is crying about a freeze which technically is not even a freeze.


After Ferrari dominance it is well documented that FIA changed the regs to level the playing field and in the case of Red Bull they removed all advances in technology and then change the platform entirely. If you have to be taught about this in regard to this discussion - there's plenty of reading elsewhere....

Meanwhile, calm down? Your posts are the ones that need some taming.


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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par tesla le Sam Nov 22, 2014 8:53 am

zing a écrit:
After Ferrari dominance it is well documented that FIA changed the regs to level the playing field and in the case of Red Bull they removed all advances in technology and then change the platform entirely.  If you have to be taught about this in regard to this discussion - there's plenty of reading elsewhere....

Meanwhile,  calm down? Your posts are the ones that need some taming.

You're clueless.
There you go again.  New rules were brought in to stop Redbull lol!   Unless someone invented a time machine in 2010 I'm not sure how you're connecting the new rules to Redbull dominance.
Teams were discussing 2.4 V6 engines in early 2010 way before any RB championship.  Here is a little info for you:
"Renault had threatened to withdraw from the sport were the new rules not to come into force, whilst Mercedes stressed that such a wholesale change would not be achievable by 2013"
This was back in 2011.
But please keep on going with your agenda.  Engine freeze is unfair. I don't care that everyone agreed to it.  I don't care that Renault threatened to leave.  I don't care that Honda is coming back because of the new rules.  I don't care that everyone had the same rules and the same amount of time to develop it.  I just don't care....this is the most boring season sad3

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Zag le Sam Nov 22, 2014 9:17 am

''...we had 4-5 years of Ferrari dominance then 4 years of RB dominance.  Now Mercedes gets 1 championship which by the way had far
better racing compared to MS vs RB and SV vs MW and it's the end of the world.''


I am a pundit, a personality and associated with F1 and I agree with tesla...

cat
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Sam Nov 22, 2014 3:03 pm

tesla a écrit:
You're clueless.
There you go again.  New rules were brought in to stop Redbull lol!   Unless someone invented a time machine in 2010 I'm not sure how you're connecting the new rules to Redbull dominance.
Teams were discussing 2.4 V6 engines in early 2010 way before any RB championship.  Here is a little info for you:
"Renault had threatened to withdraw from the sport were the new rules not to come into force, whilst Mercedes stressed that such a wholesale change would not be achievable by 2013"
This was back in 2011.
But please keep on going with your agenda.  Engine freeze is unfair. I don't care that everyone agreed to it.  I don't care that Renault threatened to leave.  I don't care that Honda is coming back because of the new rules.  I don't care that everyone had the same rules and the same amount of time to develop it.  I just don't care....this is the most boring season sad3

There you go again - attributing statement to me because you have no valid argument. I'll I have put forth about the
2014 season relative to engines is that the results are boring and that kind of dominance is crap.

V6's were actually second choice to 4 bangers and of course the talks started way before Red Bull dominance - it takes an eternity to achieve consensus with the the teams and manufacturers. The point is - a complete change of platform including engine spec and aero levels the playing field. Do you really think if F1 remained V8's and the same spec car in 2014 - you are telling me that Red Bull would not dominate for the 5th year in row?

It's come to light this year that Mercedes probably would not have continued in the sport if v6's were not introduced as stated by Thomas Weber from Daimler ..

Anyway keep repeating the same crap over and over and over ... it suits you well because you have no valid argument.


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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Sam Nov 22, 2014 3:08 pm

Zag a écrit:''...we had 4-5 years of Ferrari dominance then 4 years of RB dominance.  Now Mercedes gets 1 championship which by the way had far
better racing compared to MS vs RB and SV vs MW and it's the end of the world.''


I am a pundit, a personality and associated with F1 and I agree with tesla...

cat

Yer a pussy.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Zag le Sam Nov 22, 2014 3:37 pm

zing a écrit:[   Do you really think if F1 remained V8's and the same spec car in 2014 - you are telling me that Red Bull would not dominate for the 5th year in row?  
 
No, but would any of us have wanted that...?

zing a écrit:[   It's come to light this year that Mercedes probably would not have continued in the sport if v6's were not introduced as stated by Thomas Weber from Daimler ..  

It wasn't a threat (like Ferrari have issued in previous years..), just a thought.. 

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par zing le Sam Nov 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Zag a écrit:
zing a écrit:[   Do you really think if F1 remained V8's and the same spec car in 2014 - you are telling me that Red Bull would not dominate for the 5th year in row?  
 
No, but would any of us have wanted that...?

zing a écrit:[   It's come to light this year that Mercedes probably would not have continued in the sport if v6's were not introduced as stated by Thomas Weber from Daimler ..  

It wasn't a threat (like Ferrari have issued in previous years..), just a thought.. 

cat

Precisely my point Zag - who wants continued dominance? That's been my focus the entire time discussing this. You know
as well as I do how I have been a Mercedes supporter since day being a part of this forum ... their success is amazing and I
am happy for them - but the year has been one that no other team can even come close to a pole or a victory. No one
can blame them for wanting this to continue and besides that the PU platform goes hand in hand with their development in
road cars ... who can blame them ????

So what's wrong with wanting a more competitive championship? Why do you freeze in the first year of development?
God knows what would be said if it had been Ferrari that nailed the engine design .........just imagine that ...............

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par tesla le Sam Nov 22, 2014 4:41 pm

zing a écrit:
It's come to light this year that Mercedes probably would not have continued in the sport if v6's were not introduced as stated by Thomas Weber from Daimler ..  
Anyway keep repeating the same crap over and over and over ... it suits you well because you have no valid argument.

So you wouldn't be pissed if you sacrificed 2011, 2012, 2013 and spent millions in order to be best prepared for the future "freeze" then some bozo who was only interested in the present now tells you that the thing we agreed to back in 2011 doesn't suit him anymore and we should just throw it all out the window and bring back what worked from him before or remove the "freeze" so he can catch up?

"FIA President Jean Todt has spent months pushing for the introduction of turbocharged, four-cylinder 1.6-litre units from 2013 onwards, advocating the need for F1 to be more sustainable and environmentally accountable. The Frenchman's plans were persistently opposed, however, by the sport's commercial rights-holder Bernie Ecclestone – who made little secret of his distaste for the so-called 'greener' hybrid technology – and manufacturers, with only Renault entirely on-board.
Renault had threatened to withdraw from the sport were the new rules not to come into force, whilst Mercedes stressed that such a wholesale change would not be achievable by 2013"

Renault was pushing for this and threatened to leave but now Mercedes is the devil.
Oh how quickly we forget.


Dernière édition par tesla le Sam Nov 22, 2014 6:38 pm, édité 1 fois

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Re: Sebastian Vettel: German joins Ferrari as Fernando Alonso exits!

Message par Zag le Sam Nov 22, 2014 5:05 pm

zing a écrit:[
So what's wrong with wanting a more competitive championship?  Why do you  freeze in the first year of development?
God knows what would be said if it had been Ferrari that nailed the engine design .........just imagine that ...............

 

Well, they all signed up to it....   Mercedes have stated that without the freeze they would have another 60 - 70 BHP... putting them further ahead..

Of course Renault or Ferrari would be saying exactly the same as Mercedes....  its been one lousy year, why all the fuss..

It has been proven, especially over the last few weeks, that F1 is a big bucks sport and if Mercedes chose to start the design earlier, spend more and
have top engineers who get it right what is wrong with that..  

Perhaps in the RB years Newey should have been loaned out to all teams ...

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