2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

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2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Jarnooo on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:29 am

So how many seconds will Mercedes win by this time?

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by RaySinKa on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:13 am

I'm sad to say that I think the only excitement will be;

Who will spin off?
Who will break down?
Playing guess how many Alonso will complete?
How many Button will complete?
Who will miss their start, Hamilton or Rosberg?
Will it rain?
Will there be more than 10 posts on this thread, excluding posts about Hamilton's performance/Sabotage/Rosberg's Preferential Treatment? Very Happy

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by RaySinKa on Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:12 pm

RaySinKa wrote:I'm sad to say that I think the only excitement will be;

Who will spin off?
Who will break down?
Playing guess how many Alonso will complete? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
How many Button will complete?
Who will miss their start, Hamilton or Rosberg?
Will it rain?
Will there be more than 10 posts on this thread, excluding posts about Hamilton's performance/Sabotage/Rosberg's Preferential Treatment? Very Happy 

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Mika-Juan-Kimi on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:01 pm

great race today. Bottas will be leaving to go to Ferrari after today. Mclaren got a point yay? Formula1 needs to be exciting every race though, so be back when that happens
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Jarnooo on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:27 pm

Thank you Silverstone! What a relief from the average races of the last few weeks. It's safe to say that F1 isn't really broken, we just need some proper competition up the front.

Kind of furious with Williams today. I don't think it was necessary to allow Bottas past Massa, I think their biggest mistake was not following Hamilton into the pits for the first round of stops and likewise the second time around. It left Hamilton clear in the lead and Bottas screwed. Same goes for the second round. Vettel should have been nowhere near the podium!

Thanks mother nature for not being a tease! When was the last time we got a proper mixed conditions race?

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Zag on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:49 pm

I disagree..  I think Botas should have been allowed past and think he would have produced a good
gap to Hamilton, with Massa riding shotgun...
As to the first pitstops they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't,
a very tough call, especially with Lewis's brilliant in and out laps..  The second stop was just inspired timing
by Hamilton (and Vettel).

How many times do we have to see a driver in a broken/breaking down car be as selfish as
most road users and park where they like...

I would ban them from the next race if their actions bring out the safety car, virtual or otherwise...

cat
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:35 pm

Seems like a great race...could only watch pieces of it, unfortunately. I hope I can find a replay somewhere!

Yet another strong result for Hulk...18 PTS over the last 3 races for him, 4 for Perez...
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:49 pm

Wolff:

There was a lot of communication with the drivers around that time and we even had the team back in Brackley sending us weather reports from up the road - but, in the end, it came down to Lewis making a perfect call to box.

Ah, that idiot Lewis again... Rolling Eyes
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:55 pm

Massa about to overtake both Kimi and Bottas in the standings... Shocked
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:13 pm

Zag wrote:I disagree..  I think Botas should have been allowed past and think he would have produced a good
gap to Hamilton, with Massa riding shotgun...
cat

No. Sends the wrong signal especially to a guy like Massa who is doing a very good job lately, qualifying and race. If Bottas can't beat him on track (and he said he was allowed to race Massa), he better up his game if he can!

Massa now ahead in the quali battle 6:3...
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Gary on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:21 pm

F1 forever wrote:
Zag wrote:I disagree..  I think Botas should have been allowed past and think he would have produced a good
gap to Hamilton, with Massa riding shotgun...
cat

No. Sends the wrong signal especially to a guy like Massa who is doing a very good job lately, qualifying and race. If Bottas can't beat him on track (and he said he was allowed to race Massa), he better up his game if he can!

Massa now ahead in the quali battle 6:3...


Williams could have tried it when they noticed Massa isn't getting away. AND if Bottas had not succeeded in it either, they easily could have given position back to Felipe. Why not even try? Stupid.

BTW, how was Bottas allowed to race when Williams garage kept screaming: keep positions, do not race against each other!
Please explain to me! Very Happy

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:41 pm

Gary wrote:Williams could have tried it when they noticed Massa isn't getting away. AND if Bottas had not succeeded in it either, they easily could have given position back to Felipe. Why not even try? Stupid.

Don't know which F1 you've been watching, but that's not what the sport is about, manipulating the races like that, switching cars back and forth on a whim, just because one driver seems faster at some point during the race. TO may be legal now, but the teams still have to respect the drivers and the fans.

To expect Williams to put Massa in a "Bottas is faster than you"-situation, and then reverse it later...that's just not happening. Wolff understands that relative to Mercedes, and Williams understands that as well.

Bottas:

I was allowed to race Felipe, but it was hard to get through
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Jarnooo on Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:20 am

Gary wrote:
F1 forever wrote:
Zag wrote:I disagree..  I think Botas should have been allowed past and think he would have produced a good
gap to Hamilton, with Massa riding shotgun...
cat

No. Sends the wrong signal especially to a guy like Massa who is doing a very good job lately, qualifying and race. If Bottas can't beat him on track (and he said he was allowed to race Massa), he better up his game if he can!

Massa now ahead in the quali battle 6:3...


Williams could have tried it when they noticed Massa isn't getting away. AND if Bottas had not succeeded in it either, they easily could have given position back to Felipe. Why not even try? Stupid.

BTW, how was Bottas allowed to race when Williams garage kept screaming: keep positions, do not race against each other!
Please explain to me!  Very Happy

That is true and would have been sensible. I still think it was Hamilton undercutting them that screwed them over. After all, I have no doubt Mercedes were holding back in that first stint. They've had nearly a second over everyone, I doubt Williams suddenly caught up.

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Gary on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:33 pm

F1 forever wrote:
Gary wrote:Williams could have tried it when they noticed Massa isn't getting away. AND if Bottas had not succeeded in it either, they easily could have given position back to Felipe. Why not even try? Stupid.

Don't know which F1 you've been watching, but that's not what the sport is about, manipulating the races like that, switching cars back and forth on a whim, just because one driver seems faster at some point during the race. TO may be legal now, but the teams still have to respect the drivers and the fans.

To expect Williams to put Massa in a "Bottas is faster than you"-situation, and then reverse it later...that's just not happening. Wolff understands that relative to Mercedes, and Williams understands that as well.

Bottas:

I was allowed to race Felipe, but it was hard to get through

I think I'd like the same stuff you are smoking in your pipe! That is TOTALLY what F1 is, has been, and will always be!
Now, in ideal (racing) world you'd be right, but we don't have that.

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:13 pm

Gary, then show me a few recent (and thus relevant to modern F1) incidents where:

- a team that has two drivers with equal treatment (meaning no clear No. 1 driver)
- that uses team orders to switch the places of their drivers who are on the same strategy
- twice during one race (to restore the original order since the intended plan didn't work out)

...just because one driver might be faster at some point during the race. I'd love to see them.
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Gary on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:47 pm

And you think that Williams, which is probably the most fiercely non-driver concentric team in whole F1, wouldn't want to maximize their chances of winning a Grand Prix?

Yes, you were right this time, but I feel it's more because they were not bold enough in their strategies, haven't been for long time, and also because they thought Lewis would pass them anyway. Which naturally is not the way to look at it, but hey, they did.

And what is the problem with Williams pit stops? Come on!

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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Gary on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:49 pm

F1 forever wrote:Gary, then show me a few recent (and thus relevant to modern F1) incidents where:

- a team that has two drivers with equal treatment (meaning no clear No. 1 driver)
- that uses team orders to switch the places of their drivers who are on the same strategy
- twice during one race (to restore the original order since the intended plan didn't work out)

...just because one driver might be faster at some point during the race. I'd love to see them.


Been done and recently even, now, do not ask me to dig this up, since I won't. Why should I? I dig it up, and you come up with some excuse to proof being wrong anyway, so I take the lazy way out.

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"It felt better than sex!", Lewis Hamilton after his first GP win.
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:44 pm

Gary wrote:
F1 forever wrote:Gary, then show me a few recent (and thus relevant to modern F1) incidents where:

- a team that has two drivers with equal treatment (meaning no clear No. 1 driver)
- that uses team orders to switch the places of their drivers who are on the same strategy
- twice during one race (to restore the original order since the intended plan didn't work out)

...just because one driver might be faster at some point during the race. I'd love to see them.


Been done and recently even, now, do not ask me to dig this up, since I won't. Why should I? I dig it up, and you come up with some excuse to proof being wrong anyway, so I take the lazy way out.

As I thought. Not even one comes to mind. And there are good reasons why teams avoid that. The hypothetical/potential short-term reward would almost always be dwarfed by the detrimental long-term effects it would have on the involved parties (and fanbase), since everyone involved would be pissed off. That's why even Ferrari have the "...until mathematically impossible" rule in place these days. You want both drivers and crews to care, and stay at their highest level of motivation to maximize team success in the long run.
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Gary on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:17 pm

Blaa, blaa. Go find the evidence yourself. Start with Red Bull.


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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:54 am

Precisely, Gary, I can't think of any myself, either.
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by KoKiNa on Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:15 pm

Sorry for the intromission... try Red Bull, Monaco this year...
Gary is right...
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by Zag on Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:48 pm

Bottas should have been given the lead, certainly not told not to race.... I know Williams half changed that order a little later
but that was more because they realised everyone had heard them say it and didn't want to look bad..

Williams were amateurish while in the lead (like Mercedes in Monaco), maybe because they are unused to being there..

Considering the huge manpower, data and expertise all teams have it is surprising the amount of
bad calls they all make..  I am sure most of us could do a lot better!!!

cat
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:19 pm

KoKiNa wrote:Sorry for the intromission... try Red Bull, Monaco this year...
Gary is right...

No, they put Daniel on a different strategy (additional pit-stop with super-soft tyres), and having teammates fight in Monaco of all places would have been suicide anyway, and they even had an agreement about this beforehand.

If Bottas had been on a different strategy with much faster tyres like that, there's no question Williams would have let him past Massa instantly. That's the most common team order in F1! Otherwise the team would actively sabotage its own race strategies - for both cars. Not a driver on the grid that doesn't understand that.
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by F1 forever on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:39 pm

Zag wrote:Williams were amateurish while in the lead (like Mercedes in Monaco), maybe because they are unused to being there...

Or maybe they just know their drivers very well, especially Massa, and made a decision that, to me, is not only logical, but also very prudent.
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Re: 2015 FORMULA 1 BRITISH GRAND PRIX

Post by KoKiNa on Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:12 pm

F1 forever wrote:
KoKiNa wrote:Sorry for the intromission... try Red Bull, Monaco this year...
Gary is right...

No, they put Daniel on a different strategy (additional pit-stop with super-soft tyres), and having teammates fight in Monaco of all places would have been suicide anyway, and they even had an agreement about this beforehand.

Then why to return the position? That is the bullshit and a lack of respect for the Sport, the fans, the spectators,...
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